May 23, 2018

Professor Kate Shaw was interviewed by Chris Hayes, her husband and host of MSNBC's All in With Chris Hayes, in a podcast called "Why is this Happening?"

The interview focuses on President Trump, his non-traditional White House and the way Trump interacts with the law.

Hayes said, "it seems to me that he's had a tough climb in the courts. Particularly on these big signature things like DACA and the travel ban. Why do you think that is?"

Professor Shaw replied, "Sloppiness and recklessness, I would say are kind of at the heart of both. They've just done a really bad job of dotting i's and crossing t's and just actually implementing these things in really basic ways the way government conduct has to occur. So take the travel ban, the first executive order, so we're now in the third iteration of the travel ban. So the first one is issued a week after the administration begins and it's clear that there's been no process whatsoever that predates the issuants of that executive order. So typically when the executive branch in general rolls out a major new policy, it does it after extensive consultation with the relevant executive cabinet agencies. It's convened usually weeks and months and sometimes obviously these processes can feel excessive. But there's a lot of subject matter expertise in the federal government."
Click here to read the transcript or listen to the podcast.